Fear Is A Woman’s Best Friend: Q & A with Deerfrance

Interviewed by Emily Carney

Deerfrance is best known as John Cale’s backup vocalist from 1978 to 1981. However, she is also notable for her own inspired excursions into music, and has been pursuing a brilliant solo career as of late with Extra Virgin Mary.

Photo from Deerfrance’s blog,
Follow The Money

In John Cale’s autobiography What’s Welsh for Zen, Deerfrance wrote copiously about her experiences as Cale’s backup vocalist, completely covering both the front and back pages of the beautifully constructed book. She also accounts for Cale’s outrageous sense of humor and humanity, as well as his more hilarious exploits, like his preference for wearing costumes—and sometimes Hawaiian shirts—onstage.

I recently had the opportunity to interview Deerfrance about her time with John Cale’s band, and her other forays into music. Her answers are all-encompassing and most revealing about her life and times in the post-punk era (and beyond). And of course she discusses Cale’s love of costumes.

Popshifter: Because I wasn’t there. . . what was the post-punk scene like in the late 1970s and early 1980s? Set the scene for me.

Deerfrance: Manhattan was a wasteland due to recession and the end of the Vietnam War. Vets were walking the streets armed and derangerous and the Bowery was a destination for malcontents.

In the beginning (1973), CBGBs was more a country/biker bar, owned by Hilly Kristal. I was singing with the first guy Hilly ever backed; that’s how I wound up there. He ripped Hilly off and I went to Max’s ’til the end of ’74.

I started working at the new Punk Magazine and would walk down to CBs after work to see Television and Ramones and of course, Patti Smith, who I had been seeing since ’74 at Max’s. I was asked to work the door at CBs and then started dating Fred Smith of Television. I stayed with Cale ’til mid-1980 when I went to Paris and recorded with Ramuntcho Matta.

Photo © Rebel Rebelle Blogspot

I left CBGBs in 1978 and went to Max’s Kansas City. I was booking Max’s at that point. I got Eno to listen to Devo and produce them and I started No Wave Nights featuring Lydia Lunch, D.N.A. with Arto Lindsay, and James Chance, Mars, B52s, etc. After that, came the Bush Tetras when bands became very savvy getting more bang for the buck and money. I married Dee Pop, the drummer of the Bush Tetras. That band changed the backstage groupie scene, being an almost all-girl lesbian band. The scene became more entangled with art, and graffiti filled the art galleries. Soon the Beastie Boys and rap came to downtown from the Bronx along with New York Fashion.

During that time, bands either played Max’s or CBs. I got that bridge crossed, which opened the venue for bands to get signed and heard worldwide. It was a dark and delicious time and now that we are entering another recession, maybe we can make Manhattan interesting again. Credit must go to Hilly Kristal who carried it all on his broad shoulders without judgment or ego; he was one of a kind and we all miss him terribly.

There is a film called Nightclubbing which captures so much of the feel of the time and place. My rent on St. Marks was $50 a month as was everyone’s (if not less). It was easy to be creative and yourself when not made to slave yourself out for money.

Click to read more from Deerfrance on. . .

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