What The Music Wants To Be: An Interview with Mike Doughty

Popshifter: I wanna talk a little bit about your song development. The one that really popped out for me was “27 Jennifers,” which is on this album, and it’s the second time you’ve had it on an album, and before that it was actually a different song called “Lisa Ling and Lucy Liu.” So how did you go from that—I mean, was that partly a rights issue— and evolving to this?

Mike Doughty in Toronto
Photo © Barry Sanders

Mike Doughty: No, it wasn’t a rights issue; it’s just. . . I’ve never really had a problem plagiarizing myself! I have dozens of songs with like, the same chord progressions and stuff. You know, “27 Jennifers” has a pretty specific riff.

I guess the reason I eventually redid it was, first of all, I just wanted to be able to put it on the radio; I just thought it would sound good on the radio. And I also liked the “mm-mm yeah” part and I wanted there to be more “mm-mm yeahs” because I felt like it was a cool part of the tune.

Popshifter: And what about the “strange delightful?” I just really like that particular lyric, because that was one lyric that made it from the original song.

Mike Doughty: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, that’s right! I dunno! (laughs) I guess I felt freer in putting something that was in development on Smofe + Smang because I figured it was going to be a limited edition thing. And it turned out to be kind of an underground hit.

Popshifter: Is there a real “Jennifer?”

Mike Doughty: Not really. I dated like, four girls named Michelle in a row, so that’s what started me thinking about it. But when I was going to high school it was all Jennifers and Lisas, Heathers, Karens. . .

Popshifter: I have a friend named Jenny and her specific ring on my phone is “27 Jennifers.”

Mike Doughty: Really? Yeah, Jennifers tend to like the song; it’s true.

Popshifter: You were talking about stealing from yourself. I noticed in “Put It Down,” the initial bass line sounded very similar to “Madeline and Nine” and then you go off somewhere totally different. Is there something about starting somewhere familiar that lets you go into new territory?

Mike Doughty: I guess, I mean, it’s not even that well thought-out. So many artists that I love: Sam Cooke, James Brown. . . James Brown literally recorded the same song under different titles. His thing was he just did certain grooves and just yelled over them. I’m certainly not putting myself in his same category or his class, but I guess the artists that I’ve learned from—that I respect—aren’t precious about what constitutes a particular song or what they can take from another thing. They don’t mind sort of working from the same bag in developing the stuff that they use.

Popshifter: So that’s about the music, but there’s something I wanna show you here.

Sekou Sundiata

Mike Doughty: Oh boy!

Popshifter: We’re talking about music, so let’s talk about lyrics a little bit. I think I found something really special here.

Mike Doughty: Ooh. . . really?

Popshifter: Yes. (Takes out Sekou Sundiata’s CD The Blue Oneness of Dreams to show Mike).

Mike Doughty: Oh, it’s Sekou!

Popshifter: Tell me who this is and what he means to you.

Mike Doughty: Sekou Sundiata was my teacher and I sort of learned everything from this guy. I went to the New School. . . (looks at the CD) I know I’ve heard this. Oh my gosh.

Popshifter: He actually came to Toronto and did a tour.

Mike Doughty: Which show?

Popshifter: It was Maggie Estep and the Last Poets.

Mike Doughty: Oh really?! That was a long-ass time ago.

Popshifter: Yeah, that was quite a while back.

Mike Doughty: Genius, right?

Popshifter: And then I heard an interview with you on KCRW where you mentioned his name and I realized I had it in my stacks.

Click to read more from Mike Doughty on. . .

Song development and self-plagiarism
Words and war
Politics and parameters of the new album
Scrap, Pete, & John and “Small Rock”
Secret codes and Scott Wynn from The Panderers
The Rock Star Echelon and retirement plans

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